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Welcome to The Learning Hack, a podcast about the people and technologies that are shaping the future of learning.

Feb 1, 2021

John talks to Julie Dirksen, a leading expert in instructional design, digital learning and behaviour change. Is it a problem for learning professionals that even when they have supported learners in gaining the knowledge and skills they need to do things right, and to do the right thing, once back in the workplace they so often do the exact opposite?
This conversation dives deep into the mechanics of behaviour change, addressing the 'elephant and rider' problem in human psychology, and confronts the tricky ethical questions that effective use of behaviour change techniques inevitably brings up.
03:37 What does the ‘elephant and rider’ image mean in behaviour change?
12:26 The importance of feedback
16:48 Intent vs behaviour
18:00 Technology & behaviour change
24:28 The ethics of behaviour change
31:18 Is the ‘conspiracy of convenience’ a behaviour change problem?
39:03 Tips for overcoming resistance to being trained
Mentioned in the discussion:
Jonathan Haidt, responsible for the 'elephant and rider' metaphor:
Contact Julie Dirksen
Twitter: @usablelearning
Contact John Helmer
Twitter: @johnhelmer
Download the new white paper from Learning Pool written by John Helmer & Ben Betts – 'Data & learning: A new common-sense approach'